How We Blend Consulting, Design, and Innovation | The Innovative Entrepreneurs Podcast

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Transcript:

are you ready to think big and act bold

then you are in the right place this is

innovative entrepreneurs a podcast that

will bring you the stories insights and

tips from some of the most successful

and Innovative entrepreneurs in the

world I am your host Erica Bailey and I

am here to help you start scale and

sustain your own entrepreneurial Journey

let's get started today I I am thrilled

to have Dany Nathan he is the founder of

Apollo 21 Danny's company stands out by

blending the best of management

consulting and product design to drive

Innovation and growth well he's got over

20 years experience across various

Industries Danny and his team at Apollo

21 specialize in helping clients create

transformative new products and Ventures

all while fostering a strong culture of

innovation

wow thank you Danny for joining me

welcome thanks for having me I'm excited

to be here yay so let's first talk about

the brand right there Apollo 21 talk to

me about that what is Apollo 21 so we

are a relatively unique company as you

kind of just covered in your intro we uh

sit somewhere in between a management

consultancy and a product design studio

and so what that ends up meaning is that

we help our clients uh ideate and build

new products to sell to their customers

we help our clients build technology to

use inside their own walls so helping

with anything from automation to

streamlining operations to creating

efficiency Etc and then we also help our

clients uh really kind of Revel in a

commitment to Innovation and uh that has

cultural impacts it has operational

impacts and we like to help folks move

sort of beyond the idea of innovation

theater and there's a a lot of companies

that talk about Innovation but when you

really dig in their activities don't

support it as much as one might hope and

so we help bridge that Gap and make

Innovation something that is tangible

actionable and perhaps most importantly

repeatable what is your background

in uh I started my career way back in

the day in the world of advertising and

realized very quickly that I did not

enjoy it and so sorry to rain on your

parade there that's okay you don't enjoy

it I do that means more for me yeah

that's perfect that's great somebody has

to do it so I'd rather rather it's not

me anyway so I took it upon myself to

find something else to do with my life

and ended up working in an innovation

consultancy uh as one of the very early

hires when they were about two months

old and I spent the next five years of

my career helping to establish and grow

that business working with all sorts of

crazy brands from American Express to

Dyson to General Mills to the Museum of

Modern art and a bunch of startups and

all sorts of fun stuff and um really

just kind of fell in love with that work

and so uh since then I have kind of

alternated between uh starting my own

companies or serving as usually head of

product for earlier stage startups and

uh that eventually led to the creation

of Apollo 21 a little over three years

ago now

congratulations that is I mean that's

big well done well done okay so what

inspired you to take that leap into

entrepreneurship to founding Apollo 21 I

guess what is your why I have a couple

of answers to that my overarching why

and the thing that drives me daytoday is

very simply solving problems I I'm one

of those people that when I see a

problem I have trouble letting it go and

just start shuring on wait why is that a

problem well how could it be better and

how would technology play a role in

making that better and is there a

business that could then grow around

making that better um and so that's what

what kind of drives me every day uh the

original leap into the world of

Entrepreneurship came uh really at the

end of my stent at The Innovation

consultancy that I just described and it

was born out of a frustration of

spending a lot of time helping other

people create things that they loved and

not feeling like I uh had the ownership

and the um I don't know the license to

kind of grab on as much as I want wanted

to when it was somebody else's thing and

so I finally just sort of said you know

what uh there's there's a very easy but

difficult way to solve that and it is go

and start something yourself and so I've

done that multiple times over again most

recently with Apollo 21 and uh that

opportunity came really

opportunistically um I was serving a set

of product at a video technology startup

in LA and for the last year of my tenure

there I basically formed a SWAT team and

was helping um other companies that were

within our Investment Portfolio with

their technology problems and so I was

doing work that looked really a lot like

the work that we now do at Apollo 21 and

eventually got noticed by uh both my

Founders and some folks at the

Investment Company who eventually tapped

me on the shoulder and said hey you seem

to enjoy this you should really think

about going and doing it so here we are

here we are that's pretty awesome your

company is known for let in elements of

management

consultancy and product design studio as

well as Venture studio so can you tell

me what of each category what each

category is um and how you came up with

this unique combination yeah absolutely

um so you know generally speaking folks

hire a management consultancy when they

have a problem that they're having

trouble solving and they need some

outside perspective and some folks who

can help take a uh an partial approach

to evaluating that problem helping to

come up with Solutions Etc and we find

that we do quite a bit of that work uh

both in terms of helping companies

figure out what types of problems they

can solve for their customers but also

helping them figure out how to solve

problems within their own walls and in

my experience the biggest problem with

management consultancies is that they're

very good at coming in and helping you

assess the problem and then they will

create a giant presentation and they

will give you that presentation and they

will hand it to you and say thank you

very much pay us a lot of money goodbye

good luck and I think that's a terrible

business model I mean it it can't be

because it works very well for them but

at the same time it creates a ton of

frustration with the folks who get the

big old stack of you should and have no

idea how to bring that to life and so

what I was really setting out to do with

Apollo 21 was to bridge that gap between

helping people assess problems come up

with Solutions but then also making sure

that we had the ability to bring those

solutions to life so that we weren't

leaving people at that you should moment

and rather could help them carry forward

all the way through to execution the

ideas that we were putting forward and

uh so that kind of covers the management

consultancy and the product design

studio and then of course the Venture

studio is really where we take an

opportunity to do that for ourselves as

opposed to on behalf of clients and so

we focus for the most part on ideas that

are born within our own walls although

we do work with some early stage

Founders to help them bring their ideas

to life as well

and it's really kind of the culmination

of okay we can help identify and solve

problems we can build the technology

that forms that solution and through the

Venture Studio we can also then help

wrap those uh Solutions into companies

and help build and grow the company

structure itself in addition to just the

solution that is the deliverable so as

you're talking I'm like taking notes on

additional questions that I have I I

love people who solve problems

those are the ones who created our

country I just I love it I love it so

Innovation I mean it's literally part of

the name of my podcast like what makes

Innovation so difficult uh there are a

lot of things that make Innovation

difficult but I think the biggest thing

that stands out is really how companies

are structured and how they operate

today and what I mean by that is as

companies grow and scale and discover

product Market fit the inclination for

The Operators of those organizations is

to then focus on figuring out how to

make them operate as efficiently as

possible and so you end up with a whole

stack of processes and things that get

done that are all aimed at ringing every

dollar out of every penny in for example

and while that's great for keeping up

with uh you know quarterly shareholder

updates and making shareholders happy

and showing growth quarter over quarter

what it is not great for is fostering a

culture where experimentation and

failure and trying out all sorts of

weird things can happen and so what you

end up with is this kind of tug OFW

between how companies operate and how

companies innovate and that little Pivot

Point right in the middle there is why

Innovation is so hard because as you

grow you grow yourself out of the

ability to try weird and crazy things

you are a highly intelligent man it's

it's obvious thank where do you think

that started like were you always This

brilliant or did you have to work really

hard to get to this place or maybe oh I

think like everybody it takes a lot of

hard work um I'm not I know some people

are savants and you're just no not a

savant but you're well hell up there so

where do you think it started for you uh

it started with curiosity I think and

just sort of consuming everything that I

could to help me understand the world

the way that I view it and so uh you

know when I was looking to get out of

advertising for example I had very

clear-cut views on what worked and what

didn't and why I was frustrated by

advertising and the way that I solved

that for myself and I've done this

repeatedly since was I went out and

bought a stack of books about as tall as

I was and just started reading

everything that I could about views and

perspectives from other people that saw

the world the way that I do and so now

that has become a habit and I'm I'm

looking over to my right because I have

a whole stack of books sitting to my

right that I'm about halfway through

that help me sort of think about and

articulate and gather up all the uh

various perspectives that inform what I

end up saying on shows like this

knowledge is everything yeah if we're

not learning we're not growing and if

we're not growing we're not living and I

I highly respect that I call it literacy

and literacy and

Fidelity because I have so many

different books that I'm reading at the

same time I'm like not committed to one

at a time and so I just thought that was

kind of

funny nice I got to get through one

before I start the next one otherwise I

lose track and I got to start oh I can't

oh that's interesting okay um now I I

talk about it's necessary to fail in

order to succeed right there is black

and white there is everything in between

so give us an example of a time that you

failed but what we call failed forward

what did you learn from that experience

I fail every single day I I have an

interesting relationship with failure

because in part I have a personal motto

that is fair fail beautifully and it is

a consistent reminder to me that uh if

you're going to do anything at some

point along the way you're going to fail

and unlike what we are taught as

children where it's deeply ingrained in

us that failure is a negative thing and

we should avoid failure at all cost I

believe that you know as we get into

adulthood and start viewing the world

with a more mature perspective that the

reality is that failure Is Not a Bad

Thing failure is a way to learn and a

way to move forward and to figure out

what works and what doesn't and so on

and so forth and so I am more than happy

to say that I fail every single day and

and it's just part of getting through

life oh so beautifully said I'm actually

going to put fail beautifully on my

vision board to remind myself that it's

okay and you know what just live it

understand it Grow from it and uh

recognize that we are

human and the only thing we can do from

it is to learn from it that's the only

option is to go up from there at least

in my opinion

yeah absolutely it's it's the the

learning right every experience we have

in life we're learning something from it

is our mindset that tells us whether we

accept failure as a positive because

we're getting something out of it as

well or we accept failure as the

negative which is I am never going to

you know never going to be good enough

and so it's all about mindset there and

uh I really do love the way you said

that fail beautifully that's seriously

going up on my wall that's where it

lives for

me okay so I talk about marketing

because that's what I do and you have a

a history in in advertising so who would

you say is your target audience and why

how do you deduce that personally or in

this business uh we work with primarily

Founders at every stage from idea to up

that's that's our core Target and so I

myself and my team have been through the

entrepreneurial ringer and have sat in

those shoes stood in those shoes sat in

that seat whatever uh did something many

times over yeah exactly we've been there

we done that um and so you know that's

really what we Revel in is helping

Founders figure out how to move forward

and so uh if you're at the napkin stage

for example we are literally about to

launch a pre accelerator program for

folks that have an idea and don't quite

know what to do to move it forward and

get it off the ground that is focused

heavily on the customer development

process and helping people drisk and

validate their entrepreneurial ideas so

that by the time they are ready to go

out and build something they have

absolute conviction in what they're

building because they have heard time

and again from people that those folks

want to buy it that they value it and

that uh the found know exactly what

needs to go into it and of course once

you have gotten to that stage of launch

then we have all the capabilities of

helping to build your MVP or helping to

grow your startup into the world of a

scaleup or helping your scaleup build

the operational software that you need

internally for example to ensure that

you are ready for that scale and that

when you flip the ignition switch uh

everything doesn't fall apart oh my

goodness we'll definitely put all your

links in the in the show notes but the

service you are offering is so important

and I think often overlooked as to what

that value is and how it's going to

you're either going to take off if

you're not so where can people find this

I want you to tell us right here like

where can people find this or find you

so that they can start this process or

learn from you yeah best place to find

us is on our website it's Apollo 2.io as

it says right by my name here um if

you're looking for the information on

the pre accelerator program it will be

launched imminently short very soon uh

that is in the ventures section of our

website so take a look there uh we have

a bunch of case studies and a ton of

Articles and things like that to help

folks through the startup and Innovation

process and to help demonstrate how we

approach our work and what the results

are that we output and then of course

both Apollo 21 and myself are active on

socials Apollo 21 is usually Apollo 21

iio or Apollo

2.io and I am blah blah blah among many

on just about every Social Network I

mean you know it's either that or you

got to list out well it's you know

facebook.com it's. you're right it's

just I haven't heard it like that until

it was just funny absolutely funny so

you know maybe as a new business owner

or somebody just venturing into

entrepreneurship talk talk to me about

how you would identify your target

audience as a business as a whole like

what are the steps because you obviously

understand your market and who your

audience is but as a new business owner

what would you tell them to do in order

to kind of find that first step I would

tell them the same thing that I tell

most firsttime Founders most people get

to that point where they have an idea

that's scribbled on a napkin or wherever

it is that you've scribbled it and if

you've read any of the

the books Etc that tell you how to go

about creating a startup your first

inclination is going to be oh my God I

have an idea I must go build an MVP

don't do that please don't do that it

will be expensive and you will get it

wrong instead talk to people and this is

where the idea of customer development

comes into play if you have an idea find

the people who you think that idea will

resonate with and go talk to them ask

them one don't share your idea yet just

ask them about their problems talk to

them about their pain points find where

the emotion lives in what you were

trying to create for them then start

talking about your idea a little bit

tease it out give them an opportunity to

react without giving away the farm

Because by the time you've done this 10

15 20 50 a 100 times you will know so

clearly what it is you need to build and

whether or not people want it and see

value in it and most importantly are

willing to pay for it that you will save

yourself a ton of heartache and headache

on the backside when you go to build it

or not and we generally view this

process as having so much value that we

tell people every hour that you spend

talking to potential customers will save

you 5 to 10 hours in building something

on the far end bear that in mind

building is expensive you're going to

have a team of Engineers every 5 to 10

hours of their time is going to cost a

lot of money every one hour of your time

to validate what you're doing doesn't

cost a whole lot of money spend your

cheap money before you spend your

expensive money oh yeah absolutely oh my

goodness this I am really enjoying this

conversation I end every program with

asking who do you feel is the most

Innovative entrepreneur of all time or I

allow people to give me an example of

who has inspired them outside of it so

what would you say to that question I'm

going to answer the a little bit

backwards there's a company that I'm

remiss because I'm struggling to

remember the name of but one of the

oldest companies that has ever existed

was in China and their entire business

was built around building and

maintaining uh Chinese temples Buddhist

temples I think it was in China and the

reason that I find that so inspiring

they started in 1500 or something and

were around until literally like 2018

when they finally got bought and they

still operate as a fully separate

subsidiary of whatever the purchasing

company was but the point of all of this

and it's a terrible story because I

can't remember the details the point of

all of it however is that any company

that can be around for literally

thousands of years is an impressive

innovator in my mind because if you stop

and think about it the average lifespan

of a company that is publicly traded

today is something like 16 years

literally from startup to the point

where they failed disappear die whatever

and so if you contrast that with a

company that has been around for

thousands of years and the amount of

innovation and growth and change that is

required to keep a single company going

just for the purpose of building temples

for example over that period of time

that is the absolute epitome of

innovation as far as I'm concerned ah

that was I think the coolest answer

ever I'll have to follow up with you

Erica and give you all the examples cuz

I butchered it completely but uh it's a

really interesting now I want to like

Google the story yeah you'll follow up

with me I'll make sure that we put it in

there just so that people can access it

but man you're right you are 100% on

point there oh it's just so obvious when

you say that out

loud oh uh I have a whole different

respect man thank you for opening my

mind here well is there anything else

you would like to say to my audience and

uh you know anything else you want to

share about maybe what's happening or

what's coming up with you yeah I've got

one more thing that I will share um if

anybody in your audience has a corporate

or otherwise job where you feel like you

sit in too many meetings and you've ever

had that thought of wow this is boring

couldn't this meeting have been an email

we've built a product for you it is

called meeting cost calculator and it

does exactly what it sounds like it does

so if you're an HR if you're a team

leader if you're a CFO or a COO

and you want to really gain a clear-cut

understanding of just how much your

company's meeting time costs your

company please check out meeting cost

calculator awesome all right we need to

make sure we put that in the show Notes

too thank you so much Danny what a

wonderful conversation thank you I just

I can't thank you enough and to all my

audience obviously if you liked it

please like subscribe share comment ask

Danny questions we do get back you so

honestly just just ask us what you need

to know and we will respond again thank

you Danny and thank you everybody I am

so grateful for all of you thanks for

having me wow what a great episode I

hope you had as much fun as I did if you

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value from this please share it with

others you can visit our website at cwg

digital.com this is Erica

I am your host and I will see you next

time

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